Remove spellcasting checks from confidence and evasion

Bugs & Suggestions board archives from Act V forums.
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Toroic
Posts: 18
Character: Elric Faust

Remove spellcasting checks from confidence and evasion

Post by Toroic » March 14th, 2019, 3:20 pm

As my character started acquiring weapon skills (and not just parry skills) I realized that it appears to only be confidence and evasion that have spellcasting graphics and are interruptable by being hit.

Given that all offensive and weapon skills have neither downside it is reasonable to at least remove the spellcasting interruption that frequently happens especially for a parry user who is expected to tank vs multiple enemies.

If my character can prepare a whirlwind while being attacked then he should be able to prepare a defensive stance as well.

Logan
Posts: 6
Character: Logan Marshall

Re: Remove spellcasting checks from confidence and evasion

Post by Logan » March 14th, 2019, 3:27 pm

Agreed +1

revenant
Posts: 43
Character: Black

Re: Remove spellcasting checks from confidence and evasion

Post by revenant » March 15th, 2019, 9:17 am

Unlike other abilities, these last a long time and are not special weapon moves. Historically evasion was under the finesse tree and that is why you don't see other things like confidence and evasion in different stratagem trees.

I would contend that the bigger issue isn't it being interrupted but in it stalling the reactivate timer.

Whirlwind can be prepped while stunned but will not process until you can actually strike. Having confidence/evasion similarly delay or simply yield a "you are stunned and cannot do that at this time" without delaying the next attempt by 20 seconds might be the better balance/reconfiguration.

Also from a mechanical perspective they are not tied to weapons like every other swm.

TL/DR: if confidence/evasion fails to proc because of hold/stun do not have it start a cool down.

Toroic
Posts: 18
Character: Elric Faust

Re: Remove spellcasting checks from confidence and evasion

Post by Toroic » March 15th, 2019, 11:18 am

revenant wrote: March 15th, 2019, 9:17 am Unlike other abilities, these last a long time and are not special weapon moves.
Confidence does last a long time relative to the cooldown (15 second uptime/20 second cooldown) but evasion does not. It lasts a maximum of 8 seconds at 100 parry and starts off lasting only 3 seconds with a 20 second cooldown. Unlike special weapon skills, which have a fatigue penalty (which itself only lasts maybe 8 seconds) you can't activate it again for a long time relative to the length of many fights.

Evasion also requires 50 skill in the weapon you're trying to use or it will not activate, though this requirement is undocumented (and does require either a shield or a weapon (with advanced parrying) to use.

Raging has several moves that aren't special weapon moves tied to one weapon, but yet they don't have a cast time or are interruptible. Many of the tactics moves like disarm while not on every weapon appear to be represented in every class of weapon, and disarm can be done barehanded as well.
revenant wrote: March 15th, 2019, 9:17 amHistorically evasion was under the finesse tree and that is why you don't see other things like confidence and evasion in different stratagem trees.
Historically evasion was a Bushido skill, as is confidence but those skills have been spread across parry (confidence, evasion) finesse (counter attack) and raging (perfection mechanic {though tweaked}, lightning strike, honorable execution, momentum strike)
revenant wrote: March 15th, 2019, 9:17 amI would contend that the bigger issue isn't it being interrupted but in it stalling the reactivate timer.

Whirlwind can be prepped while stunned but will not process until you can actually strike. Having confidence/evasion similarly delay or simply yield a "you are stunned and cannot do that at this time" without delaying the next attempt by 20 seconds might be the better balance/reconfiguration.
It stalls the timer similarly to a successful cast. It's not delaying the attempt by 20 seconds. The issue is if you're under fire it is silly to need to run away and fall into a defensive stance when you can use defense mastery or whirlwind under the same conditions.
revenant wrote: March 15th, 2019, 9:17 amAlso from a mechanical perspective they are not tied to weapons like every other swm.
I covered this earlier, but you need 50% weapon skill in the currently equipped weapon (relevant if you get disarmed without taking wrestling) and need a shield or a weapon equipped to use the skill. Stealth is also an activated and situationally more powerful defensive ability that is activated immediately for no stamina cost. Raging skills aren't subject to interruption, and frankly it's a stretch to suggest that swm are somehow at a disadvantage relative to parry skills given the much shorter cooldowns swm have.
revenant wrote: March 15th, 2019, 9:17 amTL/DR: if confidence/evasion fails to proc because of hold/stun do not have it start a cool down.
It already doesn't beyond the "global" cooldown for using combat skills.

revenant
Posts: 43
Character: Black

Re: Remove spellcasting checks from confidence and evasion

Post by revenant » March 15th, 2019, 12:07 pm

Great points, as for the last one, I think we are talking past each other. I use parry a lot. When fighting creatures that stun or cast hold and start evasion/confidence and it is interrupted, I have to wait the full 20 seconds from the time I initiated it until I can "cast" again which is far different from when I use a special weapon move that gets parried and I can immediately reuse.

I got the Bushido aspect which also makes it fundamentally not a special weapons move and mechanically different on the coding side.

Toroic
Posts: 18
Character: Elric Faust

Re: Remove spellcasting checks from confidence and evasion

Post by Toroic » March 17th, 2019, 12:26 am

revenant wrote: March 15th, 2019, 12:07 pm Great points, as for the last one, I think we are talking past each other. I use parry a lot. When fighting creatures that stun or cast hold and start evasion/confidence and it is interrupted, I have to wait the full 20 seconds from the time I initiated it until I can "cast" again which is far different from when I use a special weapon move that gets parried and I can immediately reuse.

I got the Bushido aspect which also makes it fundamentally not a special weapons move and mechanically different on the coding side.
I was able to test this, and no you absolutely don't need to wait the full 20 seconds after either evasion or confidence. Once you can use another combat ability you can use either.

Of course, since every tick of damage has a chance to interrupt, you are likely to interrupted a second time.

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