The way-too-early feedback thread

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Domitian
Posts: 81
Character: Tacitus Etiam

The way-too-early feedback thread

Post by Domitian » March 4th, 2021, 12:31 pm

Edit - Hopping in to say the team is already addressing some of these items below with an upcoming patch, yay! Very cool to see how engaged this Dev team is. I'll make a small note in the same font below on the items I think the upcoming patch will help with. Also - this game is too much fun and is killing my work productivity

Greetings! First, let me start by saying I am LOVING my time with Requiem so far. If I listed the things I thought were great or had no concerns with, I'd spend the next few days writing, so understand this is the rather short list of things *I* think could use some tuning.

Other people will likely disagree on some of these and that is perfectly ok! These are just my personal thoughts, although I'd love to see others' below as well.

In no particular order, and I'll add new posts as I discover more.
  • Darkness - I'll start with one I think will have the most conflicting opinions ... I think the current Darkness system is too harsh and doesnt make RP or mechanical sense to me. I took my moose-of-a-2yo outside last night and found he didn't weigh any more in the dark, nor did I feel any weaker ;)

    I get where we're going with the Darkness concept and like it as an idea, but I feel it would make more sense to apply it to skills rather than attributes. My character would definitely have a harder time shooting a bow, writing a book, making things, etc in darkness and that makes sense. But I can still carry the same weight, run just as far, and think just as well at night as I can during the day (if anything, a INT debuff in the morning before I have coffee is probably more accurate ;) )
  • Early Exploration – This might just be my experience, but I wish there were a few more things to find when you run out of town. I’m an “Explorer” player type, and while I love finding the areas, I’m finding myself missing the little things that are useful to a new player but useless to an experienced one.

    The perfect example of this in OldUO is the Reagents on the ground. Running around grabbing Black Pearl, Mandrake, etc as a new player made it feel like I was accomplishing something, even if I quickly moved on to buying my regs. I get that scarcity here is supposed to play a larger role, but I’d appreciate some similar mechanic that made me feel like I’m making progress in the early game as a non-powergamer/experienced player in Requiem
  • Newbie skills & Skill Gain – This is probably a confusion thing, but understanding how the skills work and how to use them has been very difficult for me. I’m not sure if prior experience with OldUO has helped or hurt, but I feel that clarification on not just how to use the skill , (always told it is in the skills tab) but also *what* I should be using it on would be helpful.

    For example, as a ~10 skill Horticulture – what should I be doing to raise skill? I ran to the farms but there was nothing I could pick. I tried clicking on glittery things in the wild, but they all wanted at least 30 skill. Some general guidance on what I should be doing, especially at first/low level would be great. World lore is another great example of this – what do I do to raise that? The wiki often says how to *use* the skill, but not what to use it *on* at low levels.

    This is probably something that we, the players, should address in the Wiki (and I'll try to find time to do so), but it is a pain point early in the game, especially with limited play-time.

    As for skill gain – it seems discouragingly slow at very low levels. I macro’d hiding a bit last night (~1h playtime) while running around and went from 0.0 to 3.4 at log out. In OldUO the early gains would come a bit faster up till some useable number (20-30… 50?). Again, maybe this is just comparison to old systems, but that felt painful and like it would be weeks before I could do anything even basic with that skill – and that assuming I remembered to start the macro at every login. Trying to gain hiding through natural use would mean a *very* long time to get even to 10-20. Other skills seem similar, but I haven’t tried them all – interested in others’ thoughts here.
The skill gains concern is directly addressed by the patch coming up here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1602. Very excited to try it out and I'm optimistic it will solve it.

The confusion around how to raise certain skills is still a bit of an issue, but some nice people on discord pointed me to the Archived forums here: viewforum.php?f=25 , which contains some good guides. I think most of them are still relevant
  • Animus – This goes hand-in-hand with the above (and is probably the “answer” to the above), but the issue here is probably slightly different. I don’t have *any* feel for when it is smart to use Animus. The conversation on Discord and guidance online made me feel like using Animus for skills I plan to train up actively was a bad idea – but in the hiding example above it seems like *not* using Animus means the skills will functionally never reach viable levels. I feel like some light guidance to new players (pop-up, on page, whatever) on situations where it is smart to use your Animus makes sense. Having a extremely limited supply of something that feels so important makes me, personally, afraid to use it when I’m new and nerf myself later.
  • Item Weights – This is probably my personal pet peeve right now =). Carry space is *very* limited, storage space equally so, which means I’m paying critical attention to how much individual items weigh. This makes sense thematically, but leads to situations where I feel unfairly punished for choosing certain skills based on the current weight values of items.

    Example – reagents. *every* reagent I’ve found weighs a stone. Two units of “dust”? Two stones. One sapphire? One stone. Spider’s Silk? One stone!. This makes it ridiculously hard to carry my items to and from crafting areas and leads to unnecessary running back and forth from storage to do so. Non-crafting items share the same problem – 41 coins? Three stones. Ten loaves of bread? Ten stones. A key? One stone. Etc etc.

    I’m being forced in the early game to throw out items I know I need, items I was given *at character creation* because of their nonsensical weights and it feels bad. I’d love weighs to be rebalanced more similar to OldUO where dust (for example) weighs something like .01 or .001, whatever. This kills immersion for me as the game is more about managing all the 14lb spider’s silk and 28lb coins than playing with the more interesting mechanics.
This patch tweaks the STR calculations and should give a little more wiggle room on what can be carried. I'd still like to see some tweaks on individual item weights, but tweaking STR will definitely help a lot. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1602.
  • Stackable items – This is similar to the above, but there are some items that feel like they are “must have” and “must have more than 1” that aren’t stackable and it makes inventory management a chore. Water bottles, dyes, etc would be awesome if they could be reworked to be stackable. I imagine this is a *big* change since those items also have unique values associated with their remaining uses, but a combination of making them one-use each and decreasing their weight, along with stacking would make the system feel a lot cleaner
I’ll post more thoughts as I come across them. I’ll also start a “Things I wish I knew when I started Requiem” thread tonight after work (unless someone wants to do one before then) to cover and share some of the more obscure mechanics that I’ve figured out and might help others (housing, concealment, skinning, macros/skill use, etc).

Again – having an absolute blast and can’t wait to play more tonight, but thought I’d share my current pain points as a new Requiem player. Nothing but respect for the work the Devs have done thus far – this is the most fun I’ve had in a long time.
Last edited by Domitian on March 5th, 2021, 1:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.

StinkyPete
Posts: 17
Character: Rico Delbosque

Re: The way-to-early feedback thread

Post by StinkyPete » March 4th, 2021, 2:02 pm

As for skill gain – it seems discouragingly slow at very low levels. I macro’d hiding a bit last night (~1h playtime) while running around and went from 0.0 to 3.4 at log out. In OldUO the early gains would come a bit faster up till some useable number (20-30… 50?). Again, maybe this is just comparison to old systems, but that felt painful and like it would be weeks before I could do anything even basic with that skill – and that assuming I remembered to start the macro at every login. Trying to gain hiding through natural use would mean a *very* long time to get even to 10-20. Other skills seem similar, but I haven’t tried them all – interested in others’ thoughts here.
After playing last night, I feel similar. I "worked" hiding for around 2 hours to get from 25 to about 30. I'm not 15 anymore. I have a job, kids, a wife that always needs me to do something. I might get 2-3 hours a night to play, at the rate I'm going, it'll be months before I get hiding to a usable level, then I have 5 or 6 more skills to work on. By the time I were to get all of those skills to a usable level, the act is going to be over. Also, as far as hiding is concerned, it's a real bummer that I can't train it while having an interesting RP conversation with someone. I found myself hiding in a corner by myself hoping nobody would come by and stop me from being able to hide. I'm not sure if I will be able to take another week of isolation, much less the amount of time it would actually require to get the skill to GM.

I really liked the template I had planned out and I was so excited to play Requiem, but after last night I begin to question my template choice. Since I only have a limited amount of time, I am starting to think that a combat-oriented character may be a better choice for me as I can at least train combat skills with my friends. Unfortunately, it's probably more likely that I just play something else. :cry:

Controll
Posts: 88
Character: A Diabolist

Re: The way-to-early feedback thread

Post by Controll » March 4th, 2021, 2:32 pm

As for macroing I understand that it is in general discouraged. You should instead try to seek out animus for passive skill gains; staying on a roleplay hub also yields you higher amounts of passive infusion gain, which in turn converts to animus. On low levels you will likely find better skillgains by murdering rats and picking turnips for infusion and then using the animus to raise skills than by macroing.

I believe almost all skills except those that are used for combat are a real pain to cause through active use.

Domitian
Posts: 81
Character: Tacitus Etiam

Re: The way-to-early feedback thread

Post by Domitian » March 5th, 2021, 10:40 am

StinkyPete wrote: March 4th, 2021, 2:02 pm
After playing last night, I feel similar. I "worked" hiding for around 2 hours to get from 25 to about 30
Not sure if you saw the patch notes, but I'm very optimistic on the changes to address this!
Controll wrote: March 4th, 2021, 2:32 pm As for macroing I understand that it is in general discouraged. You should instead try to seek out animus for passive skill gains; staying on a roleplay hub also yields you higher amounts of passive infusion gain, which in turn converts to animus. On low levels you will likely find better skillgains by murdering rats and picking turnips for infusion and then using the animus to raise skills than by macroing.

I believe almost all skills except those that are used for combat are a real pain to cause through active use.
The animus system makes sense mechanically, but is a bit opaque as a newbie from the standpoint of "should I use Animus on this or gain the skill naturally". There is guidance somewhere I read (official Animus page maybe) that advises that you probably shouldn't use Animus on skills you are actively using which has lead me to avoid using it during play time. Given time, I'm sure I'll figure out when to use it and when not to, but as a new guy the thought of "wasting" a fairly limited resource through ignorance is scary.

As for macroing - I tend to run a hiding macro as I run around and do other things. I'm an active player with limited play time - when I'm on I'm attempting to "do something" that I've been thinking about all day. I love RP shards for the active and evolving story, and events, but I am personally not someone attracted to just sitting somewhere any typing/conversing, so I won't likely be spending much time doing passive Animus gain. If I was it would be because I was AFK which just feels wrong (I don't want to break other people's immersion if I can avoid it).

StinkyPete
Posts: 17
Character: Rico Delbosque

Re: The way-to-early feedback thread

Post by StinkyPete » March 5th, 2021, 11:27 am

Yeah, I saw that they were going to make some balance changes to skill gain. I'm pretty happy about that. I was on with a buddy last night and we were just beating each other up with wrestling. 10/10 good time.

Starly
Posts: 7
Character: Mote

Re: The way-to-early feedback thread

Post by Starly » March 5th, 2021, 11:42 am

You definitely should use animus on skill gain. That was how I maxed most of my skills in ACT V, because even grinding constantly for weeks only gets you so far. The Animus cost per skill point does get rather harsh though, so you might not consider worth it at higher levels unless you're desperate.

Sure you can only get 20 per day but that's pretty good for the lower skill levels. There's not -that- many perks you'll be buying at low levels either. Just use your discretion.

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