Change PDs to application based

[Talexis]

So how it is right now, someone does all the work and RP to lead up to killing someone. They may keep it hidden or be blunt about it but they get the RP reasons together and do the IG RP to kill someone, if they do not then staff will undo the PD. Now on top of that the attacker/killer has to now kill someone and let them go (whether they capture them or not) now letting the victim know that they are being targeted allowing them an unfair second chance against the attacker (We have a horrible meta problem with this community). It is too stacked in the victim's favour. There is no consequence for actions of the victim and total consequence for the attacker. It also forces people to be sneaky in killing even if their character wouldn't be. If there was an application to PD someone at least people could act how their character would act.

[Lexi]

I am not sure I understand what you mean by an application. Like you apply to staff and appeal to them as to why a character deserves to PD in the first go and if staff agrees but the system kicks in and grants them a providence based save the save doesn't count? Becoming involved in who PDs and when seems like something staff would not want to do as it takes away the excitement of the game and the possibility that the victim MIGHT get lucky and be saved. Additionally, if staff is agreeing that certain characters deserve to PD on the first try then it is only fair that they can also deny an application and say no, we don't think that character deserves PD at this time, which would really sink the applicant's boat. It takes away the free will of the players and the server.

I don't agree with your argument that it is unfair for the victim to know who their potential killer/s are after a failed attempt. You are now the bad guy, no matter the reason for the killing, unless you choose to conceal your identity with mechanics, it is fair for them to know who is trying to off them. Groups such as the Order or the Legion who believe it is their right to dole out "justice" shouldn't care if their victims know it is they hunting them. Will the recently un-deceased take precautions and hide from their executioners? Yes. Will that make the hunt that much more difficult? Yes. It also makes it that much more thrilling and rewarding if/when you finally catch your second chance. And maybe the hunted becomes the hunter. Turnabout is fair play.

Of course, this is from the perspective of a player who has had a character assassinated but never attempted to kill another character.

[Talexis]

I don't agree with your argument that it is unfair for the victim to know who their potential killer/s are after a failed attempt.

It isn't a failed attempt. They did kill you, you used this magical providence and now your character doesn't even know who killed them but the player knows, it only opens up the door for metagaming and mookish behaviour.

Turnabout is fair play.

It is not fair play, they bested you, they killed you. You now using magical providence to save your life because someone out roleplayed you and defeated you is not fair play. Fair play would be you catching wind of them going to kill you and you countering it, not acting after they already bested you. And I am saying this as likely a person in the to 5 players of Requiem to have their characters killed. I know both sides of it. The fact that people can repeal PDs for bad roleplay is enough of a safety net. If you keep adding more and more regulations to PDs you may as well remove the player aspect of killing each other.

Look at this from a roleplay perspective, how is your person surviving the dude killing you? Someone bests you, downs you, cleaves you with an axe, sword, whatever and made sure you were dead but oh because of some stupid mechanic and rules all of that is undone and they magically made some mistake in chopping off your head?

PDs have never been a problem in my whole time on Requiem, it added to the element of horror that is Requiem. It no longer does that. As it is right now protected by all these rules (PDs can be repealed, they can be undone with providence, you can't hold someone for the length of their providence timer, you can't throw a person to your guards to PD someone) it may as well not be a mechanic at all. It no longer at this point adds to the story or good roleplay, it in fact just creates unrealistic and stupid roleplay. Same aspect as a short timer on mortality, all it has caused is people afk'ing in the fort in front of a guard until their mortality is gone. All any of these protection rules has done is invited players to find mookish ways to not let their characters die. We are not suppose to be so attached to the lives of our characters, these rules are just forcing people to be overly attached to their characters. At this point it may as well be a PVE server because with the lack of actual killing a character PVP is just griefing IMO.

[Domitian]

unless you choose to conceal your identity with mechanics, it is fair for them to know who is trying to off them. Groups such as the Order or the Legion who believe it is their right to dole out "justice" shouldn't care if their victims know it is they hunting them. Will the recently un-deceased take precautions and hide from their executioners? Yes. Will that make the hunt that much more difficult? Yes. It also makes it that much more thrilling and rewarding if/when you finally catch your second chance. And maybe the hunted becomes the hunter. Turnabout is fair play.

I agree completely with this. If you don't want the target to know who is hunting them, then use the concealment mechanic already in the game right? Not sure I understand the issue here - I'm probably missing something. I thought the Providence mechanic was introduced this act specifically to make it a bit more challenging to PD an unsuspecting target.

2c from someone who has neither been PD'd (yet) nor even attacked another player.

[Blitzkregg]

I think they should remove protections. But monitor grief. I have never tried to PD anyone, I have attacked a few people and bested them in combat by saw no reason to end their life. I saw reason to give them pause to attack people they don't know but that was it.

(Content removed by Admin for serving nothing constructive)

I will be killing people, some key people, and I expect to be hunted and killed for those reasons. It should not be application based and remove the protections, just don't grief people, common decency is a legit thing.. My 2 copper.

[Nightstalker]

(We have a horrible meta problem with this community).

I agree. Since I've stopped participating in the Discord, things are better. The Discord shouldn't have a chat channel, trade channel, or anything of the sort. Just a way to contact staff and player_help channel, which will be just for helping with game settings and or explaining the mechanics of the game to players.

[Nightstalker]

I am not sure I understand what you mean by an application. Like you apply to staff and appeal to them as to why a character deserves to PD in the first go and if staff agrees but the system kicks in and grants them a providence based save the save doesn't count? Becoming involved in who PDs and when seems like something staff would not want to do as it takes away the excitement of the game and the possibility that the victim MIGHT get lucky and be saved. Additionally, if staff is agreeing that certain characters deserve to PD on the first try then it is only fair that they can also deny an application and say no, we don't think that character deserves PD at this time, which would really sink the applicant's boat. It takes away the free will of the players and the server.

I don't agree with your argument that it is unfair for the victim to know who their potential killer/s are after a failed attempt. You are now the bad guy, no matter the reason for the killing, unless you choose to conceal your identity with mechanics, it is fair for them to know who is trying to off them. Groups such as the Order or the Legion who believe it is their right to dole out "justice" shouldn't care if their victims know it is they hunting them. Will the recently un-deceased take precautions and hide from their executioners? Yes. Will that make the hunt that much more difficult? Yes. It also makes it that much more thrilling and rewarding if/when you finally catch your second chance. And maybe the hunted becomes the hunter. Turnabout is fair play.

Of course, this is from the perspective of a player who has had a character assassinated but never attempted to kill another character.

Spot on, Lexi.

We should allow Role Play to flow naturally, and after you've PD someone, present your reasons to the staff so they can decide if you are justified or deserve extra mortality points. Always be taking screen shots of key interactions to show the role play leading up to the death. If you have no evidence, you may just come across as a PK.

[millerze]

Nobody plays paper/rock/scissors only once. You play at least 3! So only one PD where staff can't evaluate if it was too thin and warn the player seems like a headache for staff. Which is where the providence probably came from.

As a player who was recently attempted to be PDed for "suspected" plots. With a staff responding that the attackers figured out the "suspected" plots "organically". *laughs*. I would have to agree with the protections. It allows the staff to evaluate if the RP wasn't "organically figured out" *laughs*. Just make sure you add some organic spices to the RP and you're good to go.

I also agree with Lexi - "Turnabout is fair play." That's the spice of this game. It was the spice of the real UO without PD. If you attack people and best them, there may be repercussions later. That's the fun part of the game imo! If you're good enough to PD them once, then you can do it again. Just play your best and let the chips fall.

But to the original argument about the application. I'm sure the staff would be best at determining that. They can look back at all the PDs and see what RP led to it.
1) Was the RP too thin most of the time during PDs in the past?
2) Enough?
3) Couldn't they give the player their providence back if the RP wasn't right instead of applications prior disrupting the flow?
4) Would there be overwhelming PD applications they have to consider all the time?